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Needed: serious game programmers

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  • Karl007Karl007 Member Posts: 27
    : : At least one thing is false n that's a certainty, it's Azincourt not Agincourt. Else I firmly believe it's totally false.
    : :
    : : "Honni soit qui mal y pense !" ;)
    : :
    :
    : Well, when I frist read an article(neither French or English), I was suprised with a usual meaning of that symbolic behavior. You know, in some countries that symbol is considered a "victory" sign, but in UK as much as I know it's very rude to show. You know, something that you take for granted and have no meaning whats behind it, and then got you really suprised (I think that Gandhi also used that symbol, but maybe I'm wrong)
    : BTW, you're French, don't it? :)
    : Bye
    : Netom

    Youaip ! :)

    Maybe the sign is a some kind of very old esoteric symbol. Try the HP Lovecraft Necronomicon but pls dont invoke any weird thing. LOL It's also certain that there is a different meaning and story in different countries and times throughout the world. Question : how many semiologic figures can one imagine with 5 fingers ?

    Hmm there is one game childs like to play when they have no other toy but their hands. No, it's not wrestling ! LOL Paper, scissors, etc... Maybe a good starting idea for a game play tip. But just take it as an example. Innovative game design sometimes starts with a collection of very simple ideas well put together. Think again of the creativity in the 80s 90s when the games were dev by a 1 or 2 hackers and a 2D artist.

    A kind of Heretic game with some "good" game design tips could be a good solution for you all. There are a lot of tutorials and code available. A simple 2D grided maze could be very simple to handle collisions, occlusion through portals and path findind. Does anyone remember Dungeon Master ? Was a great game. AI can be nearly as simple as the ghosts in PacMan. Once again it's an example, but try to see the point. Make it good and simple at start then decorate.

    Once simple bases are set, the production is nearly linear. It means that everyone can add a small piece of code or art depending on the time available. Ppl get a nearly instant reward for their efforts. Add a few tricks here, a new spell fx, a new monster model+AI, etc... And believe me, for beginners this point is the crux of the matter. Organize things in order ppl get motivated and keep lust and faith.

    When a team wants to develop a totally new and ambitious game the production is never linear until the very end of the code dev and prototype tests. Then bigger levels, more rules are added but this still requires a lot of game play testing etc... and sometimes dramatic returns to the coal mine - changing big elts of the game design or code. Even professionals often fail. Either the fondations were not sound and simple enough or they just lack of time for testing before the release.

    So always keep in mind GLOBAL technical simplicity and balance it with game design, game play creativity to keep the project attractive.

    Isnt Diablo a success with totally outdated but handled technics and a weak scenario ?

  • Karl007Karl007 Member Posts: 27
    : Yeah, you got the point!
    : You have adressed some though issues about 3D development and I must completly agree with you. Looks like you're doing some "real" work?
    : How did you implement all or most of that features, and out from curiosity, whats your main development platform (you mentioned and PS2...)?
    : However, you're advices are from first hand and really helpfull for thinking.
    :
    : Bye
    : Netom
    :
    : ------------------------------------
    : http://www.websamba.com/netom/d3d.asp (kind of basic demo)
    : http://www.websamba.com/netom/model.asp (low poly tank model)
    : ------------------------------------
    :

    I m mostly experienced in PC dev but will probably dev a PS2 game. The dev platform should be either VC6, Borland(free version) or gcc specially if some of you have Linux installed. I'd focus on GL only instead of D3D. Quicker learning curve, totally platform independent and now as complete and efficient. Keep DX only for DInput.

    A good link : Game Creation on the Cheap
    http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1510.asp

    Try to produce pure ANSI code and a system independent project at max if you wanna more ppl join their help.

    I wont have time to help much but I could keep in touch n give some ideas, tips or even some small pieces of code.

    Someone should create a project forum. Know who's available then talk about game design. Sourceforge could be a good HQ.

    Good luck to you all.
  • jfariasjfarias Member Posts: 1
    Hello,
    I have noticed you have quite a few replies of people wanting to get involved with game programming. I you don't have to many I would like to be one more added to your list.





    : Hi,
    : If you haven't read my previous post, I am new here. I'm in the process of learning C/C++. I'm a tad better in C (in the process of learning arrays, ach!). My C++ isn't great, but there's time over the summer. Don't worry, this isn't a useless post. I'm here to search for some serious game programmers who're interested in programming a little game. This will be my first time and honestly I have no experience. If you're experienced in this area, you're still welcome as you can teach me a lot. Even if you're inexperienced, I'm sure we can put together something :)
    : I have read other posts where programmers are needed...but I wanted to post my own and find a couple of serious programmers. You can be experienced OR inexperienced but I am looking to program in C/C++. Just to let ya know, I'm majoring in computer engineering/science, i'm in college, and soonly 20 years old. Please reply if you're slightly interested...you can quit any time, so you have nothing to lose.
    : Thanks!
    :
    :

  • NishRevertNishRevert Member Posts: 64
    Everyone one participating in this String of Messages. If you are replying to the Serious Programmers Listing, I would perfer that a new one is started. If you need to save any data from this list please let me know, but this is starting to get to big. We have a page and a half of these messages. I don't want to be the bad guy, but I am going to have to remove them here shortly.

    Thanks,
    Moderator
    NISH









    : Hello,
    : I have noticed you have quite a few replies of people wanting to get involved with game programming. I you don't have to many I would like to be one more added to your list.
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    : : Hi,
    : : If you haven't read my previous post, I am new here. I'm in the process of learning C/C++. I'm a tad better in C (in the process of learning arrays, ach!). My C++ isn't great, but there's time over the summer. Don't worry, this isn't a useless post. I'm here to search for some serious game programmers who're interested in programming a little game. This will be my first time and honestly I have no experience. If you're experienced in this area, you're still welcome as you can teach me a lot. Even if you're inexperienced, I'm sure we can put together something :)
    : : I have read other posts where programmers are needed...but I wanted to post my own and find a couple of serious programmers. You can be experienced OR inexperienced but I am looking to program in C/C++. Just to let ya know, I'm majoring in computer engineering/science, i'm in college, and soonly 20 years old. Please reply if you're slightly interested...you can quit any time, so you have nothing to lose.
    : : Thanks!
    : :
    : :
    :
    :

  • TheEyOfEyghonTheEyOfEyghon Member Posts: 1
    I just graduated as an electronics-ICT engineer and I am also an aspiring writer. ( Not in English and no works in progress though :( )

    Good points raised by gautam however I don't agree completely. Sorry the message got so long, but I think gautam and netom are saying pretty important stuff. I hope my comment helps.

    About the story
    ===============
    Believablity is a flexible thing and is not so much about facts. This is true for any story, novel/fiction or game. For example take a story about vampires. How many people really believe vampires exist? Yet some very good enticing stories about vampires do exist and reach a very wide audience, e.g. The Buffy the Vampire Slayer series on tv. Believability is more in the way a story is told. If it is told well then we are prepared to go along with the storyteller even if what he says is outrageous.

    Another aspect of believebility is about identification or recognizability. This interview with Clive Barker, The horror writer from the film "Hell Raiser" and the EA Game "Undying", shows a little bit about that in "Holding out for a hero". The main character in early developement was not believable. (Good game on story but the gameplay is not what is should be :( )
    http://www.happypuppy.com/features/interviews/undying-in-1.html.

    Early Visions
    =============
    You rarely end with what you had in mind in the beginning, but still it
    helps you focus and make concious choices. Be carefull though not to hold on to tight to your original idea. Stories often change as you write them.

    On the software side it get's more complicated. Demands often change as you are developing. In this case we different people might disagree or change their mind about what the game should be like. Since their are allready so many people joining maybe we can split up into groups with different interests and make several games?


    Platforms and other flat pieces of the IT landscape
    ===================================================
    I like Linux for 3 reasons:
    1) It's free.
    2) You can watch onder the hood and tinker with the motor.
    3) Hey it is totally and completely free.

    But:
    -) Many of us are young and might not have any experience installing an OS making the neccessary partitions etc.
    -) Making a Linux game is a good learning experience but if you want to learn about industry games I'm affraid Windows is still more of a standard (next to the console platforms)

    I think it 's a good idea to do the modelling, or part of it on cheaper Linux software if that's available though. Hopefully we don't loose enthousiastic minds because they don't have Linux within reach.


    And last but not least:
    =======================
    "There is more joy in finishing something small rather than trying something too ambitious which may be out of your reach."

    I completely agree. Getting to know the API you are using (OpenGL/DirectX/...) is usually the most time consuming job in my experience though, whether you're doing 2D or 3D.


    ======================================================================

    : I am going to address a few places. These are advice from another amatuer game developer.
    :
    : : I already have work and project experience so you can expect that I can identify what's important and how to achive this. Most of you are very young, but you have lot of will and enthiuasam and that is what is great! First of all, look at this steps:
    : :
    : : 1. Story and Background?
    : : Let's start with a Sci-Fi FPS game; Lots of banging, explosions, enemies, different weapons and like... ok, but that's not all. We need to have strong story, belivable, because that is what makes player to go further, all other is just details which makes game more enjoyable. I'm not a story teller, I hope that someone can contribute here, because when we agree about this we can see, or "materilize" in our mind what is really that what we want to accomplish. This is also important because team have to be accomplished of people which love the same or similiar things, in that way they can more contribute to project, opposing to end up in some conflict and confusing situation which is not rare, belive it to me.
    : :
    :
    : Well actually its been my experience that what one visualizes in the mind is rarely what one ends up achieving. In the beginning however it extrememly hard to even get to 10% of what you visualize. Also its hardly true that a believable story is what one plays. Now if you see Quake and its kind(story is believable ?), not really. Actually if I look from the end user point of view they just want to have fun and fun to many means being able to do things which they won't be able to do in real life. If you look at games like super mario, zelda, serious sam etc, weren't what you call stories that would happen in real life, in other words they weren't sane but they had some light sense of humor and overall they all were fun to play. Also one should try to stay away from games which literally make you puke(some games even advice not to play if you get dizzy playing it and kind), this eventually reduces your audience. The bottom line the audience wants some kind of excitement, so give it to them.
    :
    : : 2. Technology
    : :
    : : Programming
    : : PC Windows platform, I think that everybody here agrees with this; this is time of 3D cards, so creating some sprite-2D game is really out of time; we dont have money to license some commercial 3D engine, what means that we have to create our own (that means, belive me, lots of work and pain); however, we can choose between OpenGl and DirectX 3D, because that APIs support most of the cards on the market today; both APIs have con's and pro's for using them but if it's up to me I would rather use DX (this is only my prefered platform, I cant say that's ultimetly the best). We can even implement both API's in one engine but that things makes more complex...
    : :
    :
    : You might want to see this
    : http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/04/24/1643238.shtml?tid=23
    :
    : According to me that linux is probably is gaining some insight into a 3d applications. Also 2d games don't sell is probably a misconception. 2d games even today are welcomed by game players. Those who play the games rarely care whether the game is 2d or games like "claw" etc would never exist. Also as you are working don't you think its a bad idea to send them on an extremely difficult road without even knowing the basic art of game programming. Learn 2d first then jump into 3d, it will be a much more fruitful experience. There is more joy in finishing something small rather than trying something too ambitious which may be out of your reach.
    :
    : : Modeling and texture creation
    : : Modeling should be done in some 3DS file compatible 3D editor, whats yours opinion? Is there any shareware or freeware editor? How about Lightwave and Maya? I used 3DS because i had mesh exporter, with which I could import that mesh as object (.X file) into my scene, but this exporters exists and for other editors.
    : :
    :
    : As most of these guys are young and new, chances of having 3ds max is low, I suggest you try out freeware stuff like blender or anima8or. Blender is pretty good but I am not sure if its still available for download.
    :
    :
    : : Texture creation could be done in PhotoShop or some other 2D tool, shareware or freeware, any suggestions? All textures will be from 256 to True colors.
    : :
    :
    : Again as I pointed out its hard to have all the costly softwares. Gimp would serve as good replacement. By no way is it as good as photoshop, however it definitely will serve the purpose for newbies. Also I suggest you use the png image file format.
    :
    :
    : : How about music and sounds? Tools? Output can be a wave, or some crunched data (like mp3), and it is not really a problem how to programmaticly output that data ina application, but how about creation?
    : :
    :
    : You might want to look into ecasound. It may not be as good as the commercial sound programs, it definitely does have quite a good load of features. Check the following site :-
    : http://eca.cx/welcome.html
    :
    : : 5. Comittment
    : : Because this is not commercial product(or is it?), it could be better that this is open source project, what's your's opinion? That way if someone leaves, some one can continue his work.
    : :
    :
    : As all of you are learning I suggest you put it under the GPL. A lot of advantages of this - someone might actually rip your code apart(programmers love doing this :) j/k *wink*) and give you some useful pointers. Also if some experienced programmers look at your code they might catch bugs you might not even be aware of.
    :
    :
    : : I would like to hear your suggestions.
    : : Good source of information for game developers is www.gamasutra.com, check their 'features' section which consists of great aricles and developers project experiences.
    :
    : Check out www.gamedev.net, they are the best resource for beginners, while gamasutra promptly points out that its not for amatuer game developers.
    :
    :

  • GenjuroGenjuro Member Posts: 913
    : Everyone one participating in this String of Messages. If you are replying to the Serious Programmers Listing, I would perfer that a new one is started. If you need to save any data from this list please let me know, but this is starting to get to big. We have a page and a half of these messages. I don't want to be the bad guy, but I am going to have to remove them here shortly.
    :
    : Thanks,
    : Moderator
    : NISH
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    : : Hello,
    : : I have noticed you have quite a few replies of people wanting to get involved with game programming. I you don't have to many I would like to be one more added to your list.
    : :
    : :
    : :
    : :
    : :
    : : : Hi,
    : : : If you haven't read my previous post, I am new here. I'm in the process of learning C/C++. I'm a tad better in C (in the process of learning arrays, ach!). My C++ isn't great, but there's time over the summer. Don't worry, this isn't a useless post. I'm here to search for some serious game programmers who're interested in programming a little game. This will be my first time and honestly I have no experience. If you're experienced in this area, you're still welcome as you can teach me a lot. Even if you're inexperienced, I'm sure we can put together something :)
    : : : I have read other posts where programmers are needed...but I wanted to post my own and find a couple of serious programmers. You can be experienced OR inexperienced but I am looking to program in C/C++. Just to let ya know, I'm majoring in computer engineering/science, i'm in college, and soonly 20 years old. Please reply if you're slightly interested...you can quit any time, so you have nothing to lose.
    : : : Thanks!
    : : :
    : : :
    : :
    : :
    :
    :

    Moreover, the author of the first message here, not only has its own messageboard for that (and none looked to care - he even wrote it in this thread), but hasn't replied to the board since 5-31. So, it's no use anyway.
  • speedyprogramrspeedyprogramr Member Posts: 12
    sorry that it's gotten this huge. please go ahead and do whatever is necessary. i do have my own private board, and people are welcome to apply there. it does take me alittle while, but do that instead of using this.
    thanks.
  • MokazonMokazon Member Posts: 7
    You can join my game developement team at diexon.ucoz.com. We might not be able to use C, or c++. We will probably use Blender 3D and python.



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