Advice

HI guys and happy xmas! I'm looking into buying MS Visual C++ 6 and just wanted to know what you guys think of it? Would you say its worth the money? I'm using Borland c++ 4 pro' at the moment. Is there a new MS visual C++ comming out any time soon, and if so should i wait?
Thx..

Jason ;)

Comments

  • It may be worth the money, but it isn't crutial to own. If you already have a compiler/IDE that you're happy with, stick with it. BTW: Yes, a new version of MSVC is coming out pretty soon, so if you _do_ decide to buy it, wait for the new version.
  • Jason,

    If you are using Borland, just be aware that there is a big learning curve when switching to MS VC++. It took a long time for me to get the hang of it (maybe I am stupid, lol) but I think it should have been easier.

    The new version that they are talking about is the .Net Studio from MS. You can get the betas now if you are a member and subscriber of the MSDN framework.

    You might also want to look into the new C# language. I here that it is the next step in the C line (C, C++, Visual C++, onto C#). I personally plan on waiting another year or two before I attempt to use it as MS seems to put out products before they are 100% (shall we say security issues in Windows XP!).

    I hope this helps with your buying information.

    Lastly, I would suggest the standard edition of the product. It pretty much has all of the functionality that most people need, especially if you are just switching from it.
  • First of all, Visual C++ is NOT a language. Secondly, C# is NOT the next step from C++ (much less Visual C++). C# is being made because Microsoft doesn't have the rights to mangle Java any more (remember, Sun sued them). C# is a lot like Java, but only somewhat like C++.
  • : First of all, Visual C++ is NOT a language. Secondly, C# is NOT the next step from C++ (much less Visual C++). C# is being made because Microsoft doesn't have the rights to mangle Java any more (remember, Sun sued them). C# is a lot like Java, but only somewhat like C++.
    :

    Also, we need to make clear that C#/Java are languages for other purposes and should not be compared or considered like C++, there's a WORLD between these two types of languages..

    C# is NOT definitely (as [italic]Null and Void[/italic] has said) the next step from C++, C++ is gonna stay, and they both will take different roads..

    See ya!
    - Jorge Gajn

  • : First of all, Visual C++ is NOT a language. Secondly, C# is NOT the next step from C++ (much less Visual C++). C# is being made because Microsoft doesn't have the rights to mangle Java any more (remember, Sun sued them). C# is a lot like Java, but only somewhat like C++.
    :
    I am fully aware of the entire MS issue, but you are wrong on several things. First of all, Visual C++ is considered a language. Yes, it is basicly C++ working in windows, but it is considered a language.

    Now, let's look at C#. Yes, C# is a lot like Java, and MS could not magle Java anymore, so they decided to make C#. However, remember that Java was based on C and C++ and is a mangled version of them. Hence, C# is like C and C++.

    MS picked this name because they want to promote this as the next line in the "C" language. I even have press releases from them stating such.

    Not that I want to get into a war on words here, but next time that you want to flame someone for what they post, know what you are posting about.
  • I wasn't flaming you (sorry if it sounded harsh). Visual C++ is in no way a language unless you consider Microsoft's deviations from the ANSI/ISO standards as making a new language.

    I never claimed that C# wasn't like C/C++, I said it was somewhat like them (It's more like Java, as you point out: "Java was based on C and C++," which inherently makes C# like C/C++ if it's like Java). Microsoft may want you to think that C# is the next step up from C++, but it really isn't. Look at their design considerations compared to the ones that Bjarne made when upgrading C. They're remaking Java more than they're adding on to C++.

    You'll notice I never insulted you, however you did insult me (Quote: "know what you are posting about"). So, who's flaming whom?
  • The reason that I included Visual C++ in my original thread is because it is listed as a language in several of my reference materials and the Visual part of the C++ language is included in several standard compilers besides MSVS 6.0.

    As far as C#, like I said, I have not even used it yet. Will I? From what you are saying about it, no. I was just trying to pass on information from what I have and what I have seen. A few months ago you couldn't find books on the language and now it seems to be the new rage to type about. They are also porting the language to Linux.

    I really could care less about the language unless it takes over C++ like MS would like. I was first taught C in college and I used it primarily until I was forced to adapt to C++ when moving into the VC++ environment.

  • If you look at this message thread under the C# board you will understand the rationale behind listing C# with the C languages.

    What exactly is C#????
  • : If you look at this message thread under the C# board you will understand the rationale behind listing C# with the C languages.
    :
    : What exactly is C#????
    :

    Hey guys, thx for your advice but lets settle this argument! C++ isn't going to be replaced with c#, lets also just say that visual C++ is a good compiler with a different "style" of c++, you dont have to learn a whole new language to use it!
  • ok few things to say

    1) jason, do you plan on coding in windows or unix? if unix, use vi and compile it with gcc or cc (whichever language your coding in, c or c++). if you're using windows, stick with borland, microsoft is trying to monopolize languages as well as everything else... borland works fine, it has all the libraries and the code is what's important, not the ide

    2)visual c++ is NOT a language, rather an extension, with new libraries and new IDE, thus is it not a new language

    3)c# is microsoft crying about java, they want a piece of the java market, but i dont really see that happening... alot of dumbasses will switch over to a language that is perfectly capable of doing the exact same thing as java, only c# and its ide's wont be free, unlike java and it's opensource owners...

    4)i hate ot break it to you, but languages dont get replaced, companies use other languages because they feel it will keep them on the top, but C is just as strong now as it was back in the 60's and 70's.... in fact universities focus more on c than they do c++... that's sorta like sayin assembly is dead...

    5) both of you are acting like tards, especially you QTwhatever... flaing a guy saying he doesnt know what he's talking about when i personally think youre the bullshit artist here...

    that is ass
    "he had alot to say. he had alot of nothing say. we'll miss him."

    -maynard james keeton

  • S1n,

    I have read a few posts from you. Sounds like you like to get off on people.

    I actually agree with you about the kid wanting someone else to do his code for him, but I do not appreciate your comments about me being a bs artist.

    Merry Christmas and hope to see some useful posts from you in the future.
  • : The reason that I included Visual C++ in my original thread is because it is listed as a language in several of my reference materials and the Visual part of the C++ language is included in several standard compilers besides MSVS 6.0.

    Well, you can also find sober references on 'How get rich using Positive Mind Power', or 'How to cure cancer with magnets!'. That doesn't mean those 'references' mean anything.

    We're here to tell you that 'Visual C++' is not a language. Just as 'Microsoft Word' is not a language. Yes, they are both tools for manipulating symbols in a particular language (C++ and English, respectively), but that's it.

    The 'Visual' in 'Visual C++' means nothing more than it has a GUI. Remember, all programmers used to work entirely from the command line (many still do).

    : I really could care less about the language unless it takes over C++ like MS would like.

    Microsoft doesn't want C# to "take over C++"! You're totally misunderstanding C# and the niche it's designed to fill. Microsoft provides C# as [italic]alternative[/italic] to C++ for developing business apps, having recognized that C++ development is difficult. C# could never "take over" C++ anyway, because it has a much more restricted domain in which it is useful. For instance, can't write device drivers in C#. Or, for another example, C# itself is written in C++.

    IMO, C# exists because:

    (a) C++ development is hard. A significant portion of a C++ programmer time is spent on memory management and related bugs (memory leaks, memory corruption, etc.) C# removes that burden from the programmer completely.

    (b) Scripting languages are productive. They are as big a help OOP AFAIC. Look at the explosion in popularity that Perl has had for CGI programming. Why? Because you can do things in one line of Perl that would take dozens or even hundreds of lines of C or C++. The price? Performance. Scripting languages, even byte-code compiled languages with JIT native-code compilers, can be slower and use more memory than hand crafted code in a system level programming language like C or C++. However, computing power is cheap, programmers are not. Trading CPU cycles for programmer productivity is just smart business.

    (c) Scripting languages are more portable. If you port the virtual machine to another platform, you automatically port every app written in that language.

    (c) Real programmers don't like Visual Basic. Visual Basic, and the whole RAD paradigm, is incredibly productive. However, C++ programmers don't like working in Basic. Delphi and Borland C++ Builder are very popular precisely because they provide the same sexy development environment, with much better languages beneath them. Microsoft wanted to provide an alternative to C++ for developing desktop applications that C++ developers can stomach.

    (d) Sun sued Microsoft. Microsoft had embraced Java as a solution to all of the above problems. Microsoft had written the fasted Java compiler in the world, the fastest Java VM in the world, and one of the nicest Java development environments in the world. However, Java had certain weaknesses that needed to be addressed. Anders Hejlsberg, the brilliant designer of Delphi, made some needed additions to core Java (like the wonderful 'delegates') to support COM programming under Windows. Then Sun pulled the rug out from under their feet. So Microsoft commissioned Hejlsberg to develop a new language. He produced C#, a beautiful little language, [italic]similar[/italic] to Java, but fixing a lot of it's problems, and borrowing more heavily from C++ than Java did.

    So C# fills a gap between low-level, systems programming languages like C and C++, and high-level scripting languages. It will never "replace" C++, and was never intended to.

    Cheers,
    Eric

  • : microsoft is trying to monopolize languages as well as everything else...

    What do you base that assertion on? The fact they co-funded the development of C#? C# and CLI (Common Language Infrastructure) have been ratified by the ECMA as international standards. This is in stark contrast with Sun, whose jealous stranglehold on Java has lead them to reject three different standards bodies. In other words, Java is a proprietary, non-standard product from a single corporation, while C# and CLI are public standards (ECMA-334 and ECMA-335) co-sponsored and/or supported by many different corporations, including Microsoft, IBM, Hewlett-Packard, Fujistu, Intel, and even the Linux community (there is an open source project to implement CLI and .NET for Linux - DotGNU).

    The idea that Microsoft is trying to monopolize computer languages is simply ridiculous, and unsupportable by facts. They have no motive to do this, and even if they did, such a thing is not possible. C# will be adopted developers because they [italic]like it[/italic]. Period. If they don't like it, they don't have to use it. It's just one of many languages available under .NET (including Visual Basic, C++, COBAL, and others). Personally, I think C# is a fantastic language. I don't really develop code for Windows these days (working on Linux networking tools), but if I did, C# would definitely be in my tool kit.

    Cheers,
    Eric
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