I really should be working as a programmer, (I'm getting there!) but at the moment I'm working for a company that doesn't really use programming at all!! I work as an IT administrator, just doing whatever I'm asked to do and it's not great, but it's an improvement from my last job.

Ok, the only time I used my programming skills was a few months ago where I worked for about a week on some Visual Basic macros in the companies Word and Excel templates. In general, the directors really seem to ignore what I can REALLY do and just stick me in a corner and expect me to do all the minor tasks.

If anyone else is experiencing this or has experienced this, let me know how you feel about it. I myself have no University Degree, or any programming qualifications at all. So the only thing anyone can do is take my word for it, if they chose to. Things should start getting better in about a month though as I'm starting a C# and C.NET course.

My question (that I almost forgot about!) is what sort of things do you think I could do here using C++ programming? It's probably a silly question really, but what do you think about the other stuff? Who has made it into programming without a Degree?

>>I myself have no University Degree, or any programming qualifications at all.
>>what sort of things do you think I could do here using C++ programming


As you have found out, without the education the doors are generaly slammed shut in your face. What make you think a company is going to offer you a job if you have NO qualications? Go to school and get a bachelors degree. If you don't you will be stuck in your current job (or jobs similar to it) for the rest of your life.

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: >>I myself have no University Degree, or any programming qualifications at all.
: >>what sort of things do you think I could do here using C++ programming
:
:
: As you have found out, without the education the doors are generaly slammed shut in your face. What make you think a company is going to offer you a job if you have NO qualications? Go to school and get a bachelors degree. If you don't you will be stuck in your current job (or jobs similar to it) for the rest of your life.
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First, let me say that Stober is correct about 98% of the time on the question of "I'm not qualified, but give me a job anyway."
Second, a long time ago, when the first PCs roamed the earth, you could do it easily enough. Not now, though endless stories of the occasional exception seem to have become a new urban myth, close to Cinderella, I suppose.
Third, if you insist on trying to fly without a certificate of feathers, then you will definitely crash. By that I mean simply get a portfolio of what you have done and make it available to those that doubt. I have a "cheap seats(AAS)" degree and a portfolio that I show perspective employers/clients of projects that I've done. It won't get me 6 figures at Microsoft, but then I ain't starving out either. The smart thing for me as well as you would be a Bachelor's of Science in Computers or maybe even a BSc EE.
Play it as you like, it's your future.

: :
: : >>I myself have no University Degree, or any programming qualifications at all.
: : >>what sort of things do you think I could do here using C++ programming
: :
: :
: : As you have found out, without the education the doors are generaly slammed shut in your face. What make you think a company is going to offer you a job if you have NO qualications? Go to school and get a bachelors degree. If you don't you will be stuck in your current job (or jobs similar to it) for the rest of your life.
: :
: First, let me say that Stober is correct about 98% of the time on the question of "I'm not qualified, but give me a job anyway."
: Second, a long time ago, when the first PCs roamed the earth, you could do it easily enough. Not now, though endless stories of the occasional exception seem to have become a new urban myth, close to Cinderella, I suppose.
: Third, if you insist on trying to fly without a certificate of feathers, then you will definitely crash. By that I mean simply get a portfolio of what you have done and make it available to those that doubt. I have a "cheap seats(AAS)" degree and a portfolio that I show perspective employers/clients of projects that I've done. It won't get me 6 figures at Microsoft, but then I ain't starving out either. The smart thing for me as well as you would be a Bachelor's of Science in Computers or maybe even a BSc EE.
: Play it as you like, it's your future.
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I completely agree that the route I'm taking is one of the hardest, I know that. If there is absolutely no other way, I will go to University for a degree. But don't you need qualifications just to get in there? As far as A levels goes, I have one that I'm proud of, an A in Maths.

I'm starting this open university course on C# soon, (my first programming qualification!) it lasts for approx 9 months for 8 hours a week. It's far from a bachelors degree no doubt but wouldn't it contribute towards it at all?
Could someone summarize what a bachelors degree is and what it teaches?

:
: I'm starting this open university course on C# soon, (my first programming qualification!) it lasts for approx 9 months for 8 hours a week. It's far from a bachelors degree no doubt but wouldn't it contribute towards it at all?
: Could someone summarize what a bachelors degree is and what it teaches?
:

you need to talk with a university school counsoler to determine if that course will contribute to a 4-year degree. A 4-year degree is a lot more than just programming -- what they include depends largly on where you live. Generally you will need to take courses in english (written and verbal), mathametics,history, social science,and physical science.

: :
: : I'm starting this open university course on C# soon, (my first programming qualification!) it lasts for approx 9 months for 8 hours a week. It's far from a bachelors degree no doubt but wouldn't it contribute towards it at all?
: : Could someone summarize what a bachelors degree is and what it teaches?
: :
:
: you need to talk with a university school counsoler to determine if that course will contribute to a 4-year degree. A 4-year degree is a lot more than just programming -- what they include depends largly on where you live. Generally you will need to take courses in english (written and verbal), mathametics,history, social science,and physical science.
:


Really!? When you take a degree as engineer here in Sweden, you only study technology and maths (and a little bit of economy and project management perhaps). You are supposed to know physics, english and such from high school. And if you didn't know english before, you are going to be so screwed, because most of the books are in english. Well...I assume that goes for the US as well

:
: Really!? When you take a degree as engineer here in Sweden, you only study technology and maths (and a little bit of economy and project management perhaps). You are supposed to know physics, english and such from high school. And if you didn't know english before, you are going to be so screwed, because most of the books are in english. Well...I assume that goes for the US as well
:
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American universities don't teach english as if it were a foreign language, but rather teach much more advanced features, such as making speaches or lectures, learning to write term papers and business correspondence, reading Shakespear and other world great authors. physical sciences go beyond what one would get in high school. Many universities have "catch-up" courses which each high-school level subjects that are prerequisits for college courses and do not count toward the degree.

: :
: : Really!? When you take a degree as engineer here in Sweden, you only study technology and maths (and a little bit of economy and project management perhaps). You are supposed to know physics, english and such from high school. And if you didn't know english before, you are going to be so screwed, because most of the books are in english. Well...I assume that goes for the US as well
: :
: :
: American universities don't teach english as if it were a foreign language, but rather teach much more advanced features, such as making speaches or lectures, learning to write term papers and business correspondence, reading Shakespear and other world great authors. physical sciences go beyond what one would get in high school. Many universities have "catch-up" courses which each high-school level subjects that are prerequisits for college courses and do not count toward the degree.
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Yeah I understand, that is the same thing we do here when studying swedish. But what got me surprised is that you would read about Shakespear etc while studying computer science. Is it mandatory to do so? In thoery, you could do the same here when picking optional courses, though I don't think many pick something not related to their degree.

shakespear is optional -- but you must have at least two semesters of something on that order. there's a pretty broad range of courses that will fulfill the requirements. The majority of the first two years is devoted to general low-level courses to make one a more well-rounded person. Total computer geeks cam be pretty boring people.

: : :
: : : I'm starting this open university course on C# soon, (my first programming qualification!) it lasts for approx 9 months for 8 hours a week. It's far from a bachelors degree no doubt but wouldn't it contribute towards it at all?
: : : Could someone summarize what a bachelors degree is and what it teaches?
: : :
: :
: : you need to talk with a university school counsoler to determine if that course will contribute to a 4-year degree. A 4-year degree is a lot more than just programming -- what they include depends largly on where you live. Generally you will need to take courses in english (written and verbal), mathametics,history, social science,and physical science.
: :
:
:
: Really!? When you take a degree as engineer here in Sweden, you only study technology and maths (and a little bit of economy and project management perhaps). You are supposed to know physics, english and such from high school. And if you didn't know english before, you are going to be so screwed, because most of the books are in english. Well...I assume that goes for the US as well
:
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:

We have that too. It's called Devry www.devrycampuses.com. You can find a campus in most major cities with real professor.

: Ok, the only time I used my programming skills was a few months ago where I worked for about a week on some Visual Basic macros in the companies Word and Excel templates. In general, the directors really seem to ignore what I can REALLY do and just stick me in a corner and expect me to do all the minor tasks.

You could prove yourself for the floormanager. You could write a simple program in your spare time that increases efficiency of the tasks you or others currently do. Before you do this, discuss the idea (as the manager should support it), tell the estimated efficiency increase (always interests managers) and the time to develop this (should be short, first running version within one week). Put an expiration date in your program!

That should get the ball rolling! When your program really increases efficiency (e.g. in some companies I've worked in a simple program increased efficiency of employees by 50% of an initial pool of 12 full-time employees) you don't need any kind of degree.

See ya later,
bilderbikkel

: : Ok, the only time I used my programming skills was a few months ago where I worked for about a week on some Visual Basic macros in the companies Word and Excel templates. In general, the directors really seem to ignore what I can REALLY do and just stick me in a corner and expect me to do all the minor tasks.
:
: You could prove yourself for the floormanager. You could write a simple program in your spare time that increases efficiency of the tasks you or others currently do. Before you do this, discuss the idea (as the manager should support it), tell the estimated efficiency increase (always interests managers) and the time to develop this (should be short, first running version within one week). Put an expiration date in your program!
:
: That should get the ball rolling! When your program really increases efficiency (e.g. in some companies I've worked in a simple program increased efficiency of employees by 50% of an initial pool of 12 full-time employees) you don't need any kind of degree.
:
: See ya later,
: bilderbikkel
:
I agree with BilderBikkel. Impress your managers. If you succeed there's no need for degrees. A great portfolio impresses better. I can tell...



Greets,
Eric Goldstein
http://www.gvh-maatwerk.nl

: :
: I agree with BilderBikkel. Impress your managers. If you succeed there's no need for degrees. A great portfolio impresses better. I can tell...
:

Well if you want to just be at the bottom of the totem pole all your life then go for it. You can plan to spend the first 10-20 years just doing maintenance type work on programs other people have written. Of course there are always exceptions, but they are few and far between.

: : :
: : I agree with BilderBikkel. Impress your managers. If you succeed there's no need for degrees. A great portfolio impresses better. I can tell...
: :
:
: Well if you want to just be at the bottom of the totem pole all your life then go for it. You can plan to spend the first 10-20 years just doing maintenance type work on programs other people have written. Of course there are always exceptions, but they are few and far between.
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I've made up my mind. I'm starting this course in about 3 weeks anyway. Once I get through that, I'll get a small time programming job some place. If that doesn't help a great deal, I'm off to University and nothing is getting my way! Thanks all of you!

: : :
: : I agree with BilderBikkel. Impress your managers. If you succeed there's no need for degrees. A great portfolio impresses better. I can tell...
: :
:
: Well if you want to just be at the bottom of the totem pole all your life then go for it. You can plan to spend the first 10-20 years just doing maintenance type work on programs other people have written. Of course there are always exceptions, but they are few and far between.
:
It really depends on your goal. I won't ever be ceo of a large company, but that's not what I want. I'm a developer. I want to develop. I love developing. I've been developing for almost 20 years now, still able to keep up with the technology. No six figures (in euro's, hehe), but I can eat well and so can my wife and son. I'm a very happy person.


Greets,
Eric Goldstein
http://www.gvh-maatwerk.nl

: : : :
: : : I agree with BilderBikkel. Impress your managers. If you succeed there's no need for degrees. A great portfolio impresses better. I can tell...
: : :
: :
: : Well if you want to just be at the bottom of the totem pole all your life then go for it. You can plan to spend the first 10-20 years just doing maintenance type work on programs other people have written. Of course there are always exceptions, but they are few and far between.
: :
: It really depends on your goal. I won't ever be ceo of a large company, but that's not what I want. I'm a developer. I want to develop. I love developing. I've been developing for almost 20 years now, still able to keep up with the technology. No six figures (in euro's, hehe), but I can eat well and so can my wife and son. I'm a very happy person.
:
:
: Greets,
: Eric Goldstein
: http://www.gvh-maatwerk.nl
:
:
:
I think as long as I am programming at work I'll be happy. More specifically though, I'm a games programmer. I sort out all the statistics and that stuff. I put in the code that makes the game work exactly the way I want it to. I'm great at picking out run-time errors when they occur. Run-time are a pain compared to Compile time errors. I think what makes a truly great programmer is eliminating run-time errors entirely, even if it means generating more compile errors. Atleast with them, you see them pop up before you test the program.