Hi all,

First I'd just like to say thanks to the Webmaster for finally adding an MS-DOS messageboard. You see, I've asked him countless times for it, and here it is!!! I'm so glad!!!

Anyway, lets get to the point. First off, how do I seperate DOS 8 from Windows ME? I've tried the old 'Editing MSDOS.SYS' method but it doesn't seem to work.

Secondly, can anyone give me some code, (any language), that does basically the same thing as UNDELETE.EXE? (In C, BASIC or asm would be preferred).

Finally, I just wanna know what you guys think of dos. Personally, I love it and wish it was still the dominant OS instead of (shudder) Windoze. Am I crazy? Tell me wot u think.

See y'all later
(:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)

DOS is OK for some applications - simple games, automated lines, etc. The only drawback - it can't run few apps at once - and I am not talking about the Keyboard interrupt sitting resident and popping up like SideKick(tm)... I mean really running... at the same time... Here is only Windows can do it...

: DOS is OK for some applications - simple games, automated lines, etc. The only drawback - it can't run few apps at once - and I am not talking about the Keyboard interrupt sitting resident and popping up like SideKick(tm)... I mean really running... at the same time... Here is only Windows can do it...
:
:
Multitasking??? On Windows???? Please, get real. If you want to really multitask, you have to go to either UNIX or LINUX, which were specifically designed for that purpose. I have yet to encounter a Windoze OS that does not leak memory as well.

Win9x maybe sloppy on multitasking, but WinNT and Win2000 do multitasking on HARDWARE level, as far as I know. The kernel is completely new and not of old DOS - like Win9x.

Cheers!

: Win9x maybe sloppy on multitasking, but WinNT and Win2000 do multitasking on HARDWARE level, as far as I know. The kernel is completely new and not of old DOS - like Win9x.
:
: Cheers!
:

Two words, man: Windows Sucks! Hard!

And BTW: The system's stability has nothing to do with the multitasking method used. As long as the GTD and LTD are set up correctly, there's no difference between using hardware or software multitasking.

Hmm, probably look in the directory for directory entries marked as deleted and, well, unmark them. Have to look up some things for this...

It's good to see a DOS board. I quite like DOS especially since it is much simpler to use. Mouse is easier than keyboard for beginners, but it can't keep up with someone who actually knows how to type. And it seems to respond faster to user commands faster than 'doze on a machine 10x the speed. Nice and straightforward to code too (most of the time at least). You can't do things like ren *.txt *.asm or copy *.* .\bigfile.wow in Windows. There's the obvious multitasking thing, of course, but that's not so much of an issue if you happen to be in a windows dos box. You can't get nearly as much memory as with windows, but - again for dos boxes - you have to share the 640k you get with practically nothing. And you can do whatever you like in a dos box 'cause it's a virtual machine.

I sometimes miss the days of true DOS, but we did need a change. I'll probably continue doing a little real mode code for a long time, but you're missing out if that's all you do.

I suppose AsmGuru62 is right and Jaywalk is right. DOS had its day and now Windows rules all, like it or not.

One of the reasons I don't really program for Windows is that I can't get hold of a Visual Basic sort of thing. Is there an old version anywhere (for windows) available for free download? If you can't manage that, an alternative will do.

Continuing on the 'I love DOS' note, does anyone reading this like Windows XP? I don't. Price, activation, new look, incompatibility, hate it all.

I know most of you guys already do, but: support small developers!!! Thats for any newbies out there.

bye once again
(:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)

Dos is great!!! (thats gonna provoke a few thoughts)....

Greetings
seperate DOS 8 from Windows?? If I recall correctly there is no realmode DOS in WinME, But you could give this a shot. The io.sys file on the WinME C: drive is 107kb the io.sys file on the WinME boot floppy is 114kb(Hm... whats missing?). there's a patch for WinME to enable realmode DOS support that uses the boot floppy's io.sys file & some other stuff I can't remember.

Oh Yeah(just remembered) WindowsXP will give you a bootable floppy that says WinME DOS 8 that may be a good place to start also.

Hope that's useful
Stoic Joker









: Hi all,
:
: First I'd just like to say thanks to the Webmaster for finally adding an MS-DOS messageboard. You see, I've asked him countless times for it, and here it is!!! I'm so glad!!!
:
: Anyway, lets get to the point. First off, how do I seperate DOS 8 from Windows ME? I've tried the old 'Editing MSDOS.SYS' method but it doesn't seem to work.
:
: Secondly, can anyone give me some code, (any language), that does basically the same thing as UNDELETE.EXE? (In C, BASIC or asm would be preferred).
:
: Finally, I just wanna know what you guys think of dos. Personally, I love it and wish it was still the dominant OS instead of (shudder) Windoze. Am I crazy? Tell me wot u think.
:
: See y'all later
: (:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)
:

: Finally, I just wanna know what you guys think of dos. Personally, I love it and wish it was still the dominant OS instead of (shudder) Windoze.

*shudder*

: Am I crazy?

Yup.

: Tell me wot u think.

Why? I like being able to run dozens of apps at the same time. I like virtual memory, flat address spaces, and protected memory. And for heaven sakes, I like GUIs, especially a GUI with a consistant user interface.

Is it command lines you like? Then I have one word for you: Unix. Its command line has always been orders of maginitude more powerful that DOS ever was, and it is built upon a real multitasking operating system.

The only thing I miss about DOS was having an operating system that was so simple you could really hope to understand it all.

Cheers,
Eric

Well, Eric, DOS still has its place in machinery - like some automated line or inspection system - whatever - for controlling the hardware. If you sell you product - you need an included OS - guess what cheaper DOS or Windows?! Of course, as a developer you want a pile of apps running at once, but if you a factory worker - you do not care - you came to work, boot DOS and see 3 buttons on the screen: "Run", "Stop" and "Setup". DOS has acceptable graphics - they do not have to be superfast - just allowing to enjoy your work... and see the results. Besides, if you want to control metall with Windows - it will be just on the way with all the multitasking and swapping files, etc... if you want something written to disk RIGHT NOW - DOS will make it faster then Windows (sometimes) - because Window has to go through the pile of caching operations... You can write a device driver, but you will also pay huge money for the programming, because these people ain't cheap... Also, small busineses like DOS - like if you own a video-store or small warehouse, or car dealership, etc. They do not need sofisticated programming: SQL and crap - just let them to maintain database and print their forms... So, yep, DOS still has its hiche as an OS for some people.

Cheers!

Thanks AsmGuru62, its nice to hear someone supporting my idea for a change. I totally agree with you about the 'Small businesses like dos' part.

I think that if it wasn't for dos remaining in win9x, there would be quite a few less programmers. One reason is because a lot of us can't afford 500 visual basic/C++ stuff.

Another thing that I like of DOS apps is their individuality; you don't have your great little program running in a window; you get it full screen, free to create its own GUI.

Sure, its a bit of extra work, but when you're a programmer I'm sure that we all know that its not always easy.

See ya later,
(:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)

: Well, Eric, DOS still has its place in machinery - like some automated line or inspection system - whatever - for controlling the hardware.

Yeah, it's used in a lot of embedded applications, mostly because it's small, requiring fewer resources.

: If you sell you product - you need an included OS - guess what cheaper DOS or Windows?!

Linux. You can't get cheaper than free.

: Of course, as a developer you want a pile of apps running at once, but if you a factory worker - you do not care - you came to work, boot DOS and see 3 buttons on the screen: "Run", "Stop" and "Setup".

Sure, of course. I'm not arguing that DOS is useless, just that I would never want to return the days of DOS as a desktop operating system. I want my computer to do more than "Run", "Stop", and "Setup".

Sure, anything you can write for Windows could also be written for DOS, but it's harder. I can write a Notepad clone under Windows in half an hour. Try that under DOS. When programmers no longer have to worry about stuff like writing their own GUI libries and device drivers, they can pump out a lot more software. The ridiculous amount of software available for Windows is proof enough of that.

: DOS has acceptable graphics - they do not have to be superfast - just allowing to enjoy your work... and see the results.

You might not even need graphics! Plenty of ASCII interfaces in the world. Or the device might not even have a screen, just an LED or something. If you do need graphics, they could be faster than anything you could do under Windows - it's just a lot more work. You basically have to write your own video card driver(s). ;)

: Besides, if you want to control metall with Windows - it will be just on the way with all the multitasking and swapping files, etc... if you want something written to disk RIGHT NOW - DOS will make it faster then Windows (sometimes) - because Window has to go through the pile of caching operations...

Caching is designed to speed things up. DOS does caching, too (remember smartdisk?). But that's a digression. I agree with your point, that Windows is not useful as a real-time, embedded operating system. But then, nobody ever said it was. Back in the day, even DOS was too bloated for embedded programming. They used dedicated embedded operating systems. DOS is useful for embedded work now because you can buy 386s for a few dollars instead of thousands of dollars, and RAM is pennies per MB instead of hundreds of dollars per KB.

: You can write a device driver, but you will also pay huge money for the programming, because these people ain't cheap...

Neither are embedded programmers. My father-in-law writes DOS code; he
makes six figures.

: Also, small busineses like DOS - like if you own a video-store or small warehouse, or car dealership, etc. They do not need sofisticated programming: SQL and crap - just let them to maintain database and print their forms...

Sure. Of course, most of those ASCII-interface systems you see are old, running on older hardware. Newer systems run on modern operating systems, and they reap the benefits, such as being able to have all your stores' POS systems networked, or integrated with the Web.

: So, yep, DOS still has its hiche as an OS for some people.

Sure enough. I just don't want it on my desktop. ;)

Cheers!
Eric

: : Well, Eric, DOS still has its place in machinery - like some automated line or inspection system - whatever - for controlling the hardware.
:
: Yeah, it's used in a lot of embedded applications, mostly because it's small, requiring fewer resources.
:
: : If you sell you product - you need an included OS - guess what cheaper DOS or Windows?!
:
: Linux. You can't get cheaper than free.
:
: : Of course, as a developer you want a pile of apps running at once, but if you a factory worker - you do not care - you came to work, boot DOS and see 3 buttons on the screen: "Run", "Stop" and "Setup".
:
: Sure, of course. I'm not arguing that DOS is useless, just that I would never want to return the days of DOS as a desktop operating system. I want my computer to do more than "Run", "Stop", and "Setup".
:
: Sure, anything you can write for Windows could also be written for DOS, but it's harder. I can write a Notepad clone under Windows in half an hour. Try that under DOS. When programmers no longer have to worry about stuff like writing their own GUI libries and device drivers, they can pump out a lot more software. The ridiculous amount of software available for Windows is proof enough of that.
:
: : DOS has acceptable graphics - they do not have to be superfast - just allowing to enjoy your work... and see the results.
:
: You might not even need graphics! Plenty of ASCII interfaces in the world. Or the device might not even have a screen, just an LED or something. If you do need graphics, they could be faster than anything you could do under Windows - it's just a lot more work. You basically have to write your own video card driver(s). ;)
:
: : Besides, if you want to control metall with Windows - it will be just on the way with all the multitasking and swapping files, etc... if you want something written to disk RIGHT NOW - DOS will make it faster then Windows (sometimes) - because Window has to go through the pile of caching operations...
:
: Caching is designed to speed things up. DOS does caching, too (remember smartdisk?). But that's a digression. I agree with your point, that Windows is not useful as a real-time, embedded operating system. But then, nobody ever said it was. Back in the day, even DOS was too bloated for embedded programming. They used dedicated embedded operating systems. DOS is useful for embedded work now because you can buy 386s for a few dollars instead of thousands of dollars, and RAM is pennies per MB instead of hundreds of dollars per KB.
:
: : You can write a device driver, but you will also pay huge money for the programming, because these people ain't cheap...
:
: Neither are embedded programmers. My father-in-law writes DOS code; he
: makes six figures.
:
: : Also, small busineses like DOS - like if you own a video-store or small warehouse, or car dealership, etc. They do not need sofisticated programming: SQL and crap - just let them to maintain database and print their forms...
:
: Sure. Of course, most of those ASCII-interface systems you see are old, running on older hardware. Newer systems run on modern operating systems, and they reap the benefits, such as being able to have all your stores' POS systems networked, or integrated with the Web.
:
: : So, yep, DOS still has its hiche as an OS for some people.
:
: Sure enough. I just don't want it on my desktop. ;)
:
: Cheers!
: Eric
:
:
my think told me that
ms dos>>>>>window
isn't
it?
i don"t
want to make any argu?
but i can make notepad usig turbo c in just 15 minutes

: my think told me that
: ms dos>>>>>window
: isn't
: it?

Hmmm... don't know what the heck you're trying to say. DOS is greater than Windows? DOS is equivelant to Windows?

: i don"t
: want to make any argu?

What?

: but i can make notepad usig turbo c in just 15 minutes

If you could write a DOS Notepad in a week, that would be truly impressive. Let's go over Notepad's features...

   * Full screen editing of up to 64KB of text, with the ability to
     wrap text, and scroll visible text in any direction
   * Find/Replace text, forward or backwards
   * One level of undo
   * Full mouse support
   * Customizable font (including True Type fonts)
   * Supports numerous CUA keystrokes for editing:
        Cursor:
          RIGHT ARROW  - next character
          LEFT ARROW   - previous character
          DOWN ARROW   - next line
          UP ARROW     - previous line
          HOME         - beginning of line
          END          - end of line
          PAGE DOWN    - next page
          PAGE UP      - previous page
          CONTROL+HOME - top of document
          CONTROL+END  - bottom of document
        Selection:
          SHIFT + <any cursor movement>
            - any text the cursor moves over is selected
          CONTROL+A    - select all
        Editing:
          DEL          - delete text
          CONTROL+X    - cut text
          CONTROL+C    - copy text
          CONTROL+Y    - paste text
          CONTROL+I    - insert tab
          CONTROL+Z    - undo
        Searching:
          CONTROL+F    - find text
          F3           - repeat last find
          CONTROL+H    - replace text
          CONTROL+G    - goto line number
        Document:
          CONTROL+N    - new
          CONTROL+O    - open
          CONTROL+S    - save
          CONTROL+A    - save as
          CONTROL+P    - print
   * Re-sizable window, can be places anywhere on the screen
   * Can run multiple instances to edit different files at the same time
   * Can copy and paste between multiple instances
   * Has sophisticated "Open" and "Save" dialogs that:
        - allow you to browse your entire machine, or other machines on the
          network, to find files.
        - able to show you the size, type and last modified date of each file
        - allows you to create new folders, move files, create files, delete
          files, etc.
   * Can print to virtually any printer on the market, including Postscript
     printers, in portrait or landscape, with customizable margins, and more...

"Hey!", you say, "That's not fair! Most of those 'features' are provided by Windows!". That's my point. Because Windows has such powerful, easy to use building blocks laying around, like edit controls and common dialogs, you can whip out sophisticated programs like Notepad in a few minutes. Notepad doesn't seem sophisticated, because in comparison to other Windows programs it's not. But try to duplicate it's functionality in DOS, and you will find out how sophisticated it really is.

Cheers,
Eric

: : my think told me that
: : ms dos>>>>>window
: : isn't
: : it?
:
: Hmmm... don't know what the heck you're trying to say. DOS is greater than Windows? DOS is equivelant to Windows?
:
: : i don"t
: : want to make any argu?
:
: What?
:
: : but i can make notepad usig turbo c in just 15 minutes
:
: If you could write a DOS Notepad in a week, that would be truly impressive. Let's go over Notepad's features...
:

:    * Full screen editing of up to 64KB of text, with the ability to
:      wrap text, and scroll visible text in any direction
:    * Find/Replace text, forward or backwards
:    * One level of undo
:    * Full mouse support
:    * Customizable font (including True Type fonts)
:    * Supports numerous CUA keystrokes for editing:
:         Cursor:
:           RIGHT ARROW  - next character
:           LEFT ARROW   - previous character
:           DOWN ARROW   - next line
:           UP ARROW     - previous line
:           HOME         - beginning of line
:           END          - end of line
:           PAGE DOWN    - next page
:           PAGE UP      - previous page
:           CONTROL+HOME - top of document
:           CONTROL+END  - bottom of document
:         Selection:
:           SHIFT + <any cursor movement>
:             - any text the cursor moves over is selected
:           CONTROL+A    - select all
:         Editing:
:           DEL          - delete text
:           CONTROL+X    - cut text
:           CONTROL+C    - copy text
:           CONTROL+Y    - paste text
:           CONTROL+I    - insert tab
:           CONTROL+Z    - undo
:         Searching:
:           CONTROL+F    - find text
:           F3           - repeat last find
:           CONTROL+H    - replace text
:           CONTROL+G    - goto line number
:         Document:
:           CONTROL+N    - new
:           CONTROL+O    - open
:           CONTROL+S    - save
:           CONTROL+A    - save as
:           CONTROL+P    - print
:    * Re-sizable window, can be places anywhere on the screen
:    * Can run multiple instances to edit different files at the same time
:    * Can copy and paste between multiple instances
:    * Has sophisticated "Open" and "Save" dialogs that:
:         - allow you to browse your entire machine, or other machines on the
:           network, to find files.
:         - able to show you the size, type and last modified date of each file
:         - allows you to create new folders, move files, create files, delete
:           files, etc.
:    * Can print to virtually any printer on the market, including Postscript
:      printers, in portrait or landscape, with customizable margins, and more...
: 

: "Hey!", you say, "That's not fair! Most of those 'features' are provided by Windows!". That's my point. Because Windows has such powerful, easy to use building blocks laying around, like edit controls and common dialogs, you can whip out sophisticated programs like Notepad in a few minutes. Notepad doesn't seem sophisticated, because in comparison to other Windows programs it's not. But try to duplicate it's functionality in DOS, and you will find out how sophisticated it really is.
:
: Cheers,
: Eric
:
:
dear eric
just wait for one or two day
because currently i working on a paintbrush
so i have no time to make notepad.
but i send you notepad in just two or three day.
if you want you can get my paintbrush
but it is not completed.
you can get it by check
mail in hotmail.
loginname: demogroup84
password :demoforall
you open in hotmail
i will send it as attachment.

thank you
if you give me more idea i wil also make them in window.

: i send you notepad in just two or three day.
: if you want you can get my paintbrush

Um, I don't want your 'paintbrush' (no offense), and there's no need to send me notepad. Thanks anyway.

Cheers,
Eric