Hi guys I'm a complete idiot in programming. I'm trying to learn turbo c. The reference I use is "let us C" bu Yashvant Kanetkar. I hope to learn more from here especially from the experience guys.

My first advise is to forget all about Turbo C and get a modern compiler instead. Dev C++ is free and fully supports both C and C++.

http://www.bloodshed.net/dev/devcpp.html

Turbo C was written for DOS and has been obsolete for 13 years. It doesn't support C++ nor Windows programming.

: My first advise is to forget all about Turbo C and get a modern
: compiler instead. Dev C++ is free and fully supports both C and C++.
:
: http://www.bloodshed.net/dev/devcpp.html
:
: Turbo C was written for DOS and has been obsolete for 13 years. It
: doesn't support C++ nor Windows programming.

Turbo C does support C++; you just have to use the -P option. Need any help, PM me.

As I understand it Dev C++ is not really a compiler but an IDE (Integrated Development Environment), i.e., a wrapper for an editor and compiler. The actual compiler is GNU C. (also free).

What is the definition of "supports Windows programming?" For me the term means a "visual" language such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Delphi or RealBasic, but in the above context you seem to mean something else. No?

: Turbo C does support C++; you just have to use the -P option. Need
: any help, PM me.

To clear things out, we are talking about the ancient dinosaur Turbo C++ from 1991 and not the new RAD tool released in 2006, right?

Ancient dinosaur TC++ has support for a completely outdated C++ standard. The major standardization of C++ took place in 1995, four years later. Before that, the language was fuzzily defined and unportable. Since 1995, further minor changes have been made to the standard.

It is utterly pointless to learn about an outdated version of a programming language, and it is utterly pointless to learn the API of an obsolete OS. Might as well learn Cobol.


: As I understand it Dev C++ is not really a compiler but an IDE
: (Integrated Development Environment), i.e., a wrapper for an editor
: and compiler. The actual compiler is GNU C. (also free).

That's correct. TC++ was also an IDE.


: What is the definition of "supports Windows programming?" For me
: the term means a "visual" language such as Visual Basic, Visual C++,
: Delphi or RealBasic, but in the above context you seem to mean
: something else. No?

Windows programming == support for the Windows API, ie the interface between Windows and your program. "RAD tools" (rapid application development) such as Visual C++ hide away the API beneath easier to use functions. The alternative is to not use such tools and do all the API calls straight from your own code. Since the API is rather complicated, that is not an efficient way to program, especially not when making GUIs. Hence the need for RAD tools.

ok I don't really have an idea on what you guys have said. But I understand that turbo C is an obsolete language as you say? so you're suggesting C++? any good book that I can follow? I like books that offers problems and make it as a program. Like Get the average of 3 test and things like that.

Turbo C is a compiler, not a language. The compiler translates the source code written in a language into an executable file. The language is either C or C++, they are rather similar.

The main usage of C is embedded systems programming, but it is also good to know for Windows programming.

C++ is a more modern, although complex language. It is a good choise if you want to do Windows / desktop programming. Other good languages for such are Java and C#.

:
: Might as well learn Cobol.
:
Don't knock learning Cobol. Outside the PC/Mac world, and maybe including PC/Mac, Cobol is still the most used language, albeit the need is for software maintenance rather than new development. The U.S. Social Security administration still uses Cobol because it does not have the resources to rewrite the software. Likewise, the entire North American power grid is controlled by Fortran, a natural choice for engineers who first put the grid under computer control, and shutting down the grid for a week while power companies install new and untested software is out of the question. All this is leading up to what has been called the legacy software crisis, millions of lines of code maintained by baby boomers who will begin to retire in droves starting in 2012.

Leading up to Dec 31, 1999 there was a demand for Cobol/Fortran programmers to fix the Y2K bug, which, of course, went away once Y2K arrived. But the legacy crisis is not fixed to any specific date. There's going to be a serious demand for Cobol/Fortran programmers that will last at least a decade. Right now colleges and universities are not providing that training.
:
: TC++ was also an IDE.
:
But it includes a command line compiler so you don't have to use Borland's IDE if you prefer something else, e.g., B.R.I.E.F. The point I was trying to make was that one need not necessarily go with DEV if all you were really interested in was the underlying compiler.
:
: Windows programming == support for the Windows API, ...
:
Thanks. That's very interesting and useful information.

: :
: : Might as well learn Cobol.
: :
: Don't knock learning Cobol. Outside the PC/Mac world, and maybe
: including PC/Mac, Cobol is still the most used language, albeit the
: need is for software maintenance rather than new development. The
: U.S. Social Security administration still uses Cobol because it does
: not have the resources to rewrite the software. Likewise, the
: entire North American power grid is controlled by Fortran, a natural
: choice for engineers who first put the grid under computer control,
: and shutting down the grid for a week while power companies install
: new and untested software is out of the question. All this is
: leading up to what has been called the legacy software crisis,
: millions of lines of code maintained by baby boomers who will begin
: to retire in droves starting in 2012.
:
: Leading up to Dec 31, 1999 there was a demand for Cobol/Fortran
: programmers to fix the Y2K bug, which, of course, went away once Y2K
: arrived. But the legacy crisis is not fixed to any specific date.
: There's going to be a serious demand for Cobol/Fortran programmers
: that will last at least a decade. Right now colleges and
: universities are not providing that training.
: :
: : TC++ was also an IDE.
: :
: But it includes a command line compiler so you don't have to use
: Borland's IDE if you prefer something else, e.g., B.R.I.E.F. The
: point I was trying to make was that one need not necessarily go with
: DEV if all you were really interested in was the underlying compiler.
: :
: : Windows programming == support for the Windows API, ...
: :
: Thanks. That's very interesting and useful information.
:
:
Hey, I probably can make some green (if there will be demand) - I love FORTRAN!

: : Might as well learn Cobol.
: :
: Don't knock learning Cobol. Outside the PC/Mac world, and maybe
: including PC/Mac, Cobol is still the most used language, albeit the
: need is for software maintenance rather than new development. The
: U.S. Social Security administration still uses Cobol because it does
: not have the resources to rewrite the software. Likewise, the
: entire North American power grid is controlled by Fortran, a natural
: choice for engineers who first put the grid under computer control,
: and shutting down the grid for a week while power companies install
: new and untested software is out of the question.

The American power grid is also a first class example of poor engineering. It is very poorly designed and outdated.


: There's going to be a serious demand for Cobol/Fortran programmers
: that will last at least a decade. Right now colleges and
: universities are not providing that training.

If you learn programming just to get a job, you should ask yourself if you still want a job 5 years from now or not.



: : TC++ was also an IDE.
: :
: But it includes a command line compiler so you don't have to use
: Borland's IDE if you prefer something else

GCC is also a command line compiler, hidden beneath Dev. Dev was made to make it easier to use GCC without the need of learning hundreds of compiler options. Command line compilers are quite beginner-unfriendly.

Also, if you just want a command line compiler, and you are a Borland patriot, then get Borlands latest (excellent) compiler, not a completely outdated one.

:
: The American power grid is also a first class example of poor
: engineering. It is very poorly designed and outdated.
:

I have no firsthand knowledge of the American power grid but, since it's part of the infrastructure and America's neglect of its infrastructure has been well publicized, it would not surprise me it that's true. But that does not change the fact that there's a coming demand for legacy programmers.

:
: If you learn programming just to get a job, you should ask yourself
: if you still want a job 5 years from now or not.
:

I think most people will still want a job 5 years from now unless they manage to retire or become independently wealthy. Is not getting a job the major motivation for acquiring any skill?

: :
: : The American power grid is also a first class example of poor
: : engineering. It is very poorly designed and outdated.
: :
:
: I have no firsthand knowledge of the American power grid but, since
: it's part of the infrastructure and America's neglect of its
: infrastructure has been well publicized, it would not surprise me it
: that's true. But that does not change the fact that there's a
: coming demand for legacy programmers.
:


I don't agree. You need a whole lot of skill to write a new program, but not as much skill to understand one. They will be forced to replace all that crap sooner or later, and then the new programs have to be written in C/C++. If you learn Cobol you will have a job -until- that happens. If you learn C/C++, you will have a job -afterwards-.

:
: I don't agree. You need a whole lot of skill to write a new program,
: but not as much skill to understand one.
:

If you are talking about small programs, say less than 1000 lines, that may be true. But for big programs of thousands, or tens of thousands, of lines, my personal experience is just the opposite. Writing a new program from scratch is easy compared to trying to figure out how someone else's code works. In my first programming job it was years before I was asked to write a new program. Until then, I did software maintenance, adding new features to existing programs and fixing bugs. Inevitably the guys who worked on the program before you seem to have a programming style that seems weird, and they did things in a way that you would never do it. You not only have to be a programmer, you have to be a detective. I used to tell people, only half jokingly, that I was a "software archeologist."

:
: They will be forced to
: replace all that crap sooner or later,
:

Probably later rather than sooner. This is a song that has been sung for decades and it hasn't happened yet. It won't happen until the bean counters are convinced that they can't avoid it or that it will improve this year's bottom line. Legacy code stays on-line because it's not economically viable to re-write it, a phenomenon called "software inertia."

:
: and then the new programs
: have to be written in C/C++.
:

Not. There are plenty of other languages out there that they can be written in, and probably will be. C/C++ was called "the Fortran of the 90s" and there are signs that, like Fortran, C/C++ is past its peak. Witness the fact that universities are now trending to teaching Java as a first language, not C/C++. Some of them never taught C/C++ as a first language, but went straight from Pascal to Java. Or the fact that Britain's counterpart to the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board has decreed that air traffic control software cannot be written in C/C++, but must be written in Ada.

:
: If you learn Cobol you will have a job
: -until- that happens. If you learn C/C++, you will have a job
: -afterwards-.
:

...maintaining legacy code written in C/C++ that does not get re-written because the bean counters will not cough up the cash. History repeats itself.

A professional programmer should be proficient in several language, not just one, and be prepared to learn new languages as the state of the art advances.

: Hi guys I'm a complete idiot in programming. I'm trying to learn
: turbo c. The reference I use is "let us C" bu Yashvant Kanetkar. I
: hope to learn more from here especially from the experience guys.
:

.

look at this way in C++
"i = i + 1" wtf is this. if you know algebra and do a transformation it will be "1 = 0". and many new languages do this.
but in COBOL. This will be " add 1 to i". Which is pretty understable even for stupid kids and the whole system is like a novel if you will read it.
unlike C++, Java, basic. which after the 3 months and you have some thing to add on the routine. you have to understand it for 4 months before you can do your work.

Nobody wants COBOL because its very wordy but it also self-documenting. Unlike other langauges that you have a documetation in all the line. Before and after its code line just to remind you what this line is doing.

thats why this thing is still going on. And also everthing is on the compiler. Unlike the C++ you must have all kinds of libraries from other companies before you compile it.

weeww.. goodluck!=)