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Maximum easyment

Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:08:16 -0700

Todays pl(programming language) is hard to write code. We can see some improvement for example in Delphi where editor try to do some work oneself. But it isnt enought. There is many possibilities to make it easier. I am starting with creating my pl so you can advise some improvement.
Thanks everybody

Re: Maximum easyment

Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:24:11 -0700

: Todays pl(programming language) is hard to write code. We can see some improvement for example in Delphi where editor try to do some work oneself. But it isnt enought. There is many possibilities to make it easier. I am starting with creating my pl so you can advise some improvement.
: Thanks everybody
:

Re: Maximum easyment

Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:26:24 -0700

: : Todays pl(programming language) is hard to write code. We can see some improvement for example in Delphi where editor try to do some work oneself. But it isnt enought. There is many possibilities to make it easier. I am starting with creating my pl so you can advise some improvement.
: : Thanks everybody
: :
:
: Which pl do you feels is better C++, Java or SQL in Visual Basic?

Re: Maximum easyment

Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:56:56 -0700

C++ is quite good pl but it is very old. Java are based on C. And I dont know what do you mean "SQL in Visual Basic". Basic is very easy pl but it is more older whan C. It was created in times when GUI were fiction. SQL is database language. I think that Pascal is the best pl but this my opinion can be changed suddenly. The best pl for me will be my own pl which I am starting to create.

Re: Maximum easyment

Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:19:39 -0700

: : : Todays pl(programming language) is hard to write code. We can see some improvement for example in Delphi where editor try to do some work oneself. But it isnt enought. There is many possibilities to make it easier. I am starting with creating my pl so you can advise some improvement.
: : : Thanks everybody
: : :
: :
: : Which pl do you feels is better C++, Java or SQL in Visual Basic?
:
I think C++ is the best for begginers i would know because i am 1 and i think its the best for you all to learn

Re: Maximum easyment

Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:20:46 -0700

Oh what a horrible language Pascal is!

Whatever language you develope, you'll have the planets support if it is 100% object oriented.

Java is the closest I've seen to 100% object orientation. It's even compatible with other languages. The problem is that it lacks some of the powerful developmemt tools such as information hidding, pointers, multiple inheritance, templates are missing (I think?!), etc., and the apps are very slow compared to other pl's. The benifit is that it is platform independent.

C++ is almost as close to Java with respect to object orientation, but has the most advanced features such as pointers, multiple inheritance and fascilitates information hidding. It's the fastest and most versitile development language, but has some problems: it doesn't support multithreading, functions are allowed to 'float' in the air without belonging to a class (which contracts object orientation), the apps are platform dependent, etc...

VB is based upon the prehistoric caveman style pl BASIC which is good for nothing except make training institutes and Bill Gates wealthier. I won't even start to mention the draw backs. There's only so much space on the net.

Pascal and Delphi are object based and not object oriented. It's complicated to maintain and after a day of research into new methods one finds that something just cannot be done. You can't even intergrate an app in these pl's with another, which make Delphi and Pascal useless except for small and unsophisticated apps, (and for preschool learning).

The moral: if it is possible to create a pl that eliminates all of the above (and some more) problems, then you'll become a multi-billionare overnight. Keep going, we need an improvement... As for now all we got is Java and C++.

Re: Maximum easyment

Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:20:59 -0700

: : : : Todays pl(programming language) is hard to write code. We can see some improvement for example in Delphi where editor try to do some work oneself. But it isnt enought. There is many possibilities to make it easier. I am starting with creating my pl so you can advise some improvement.
: : : : Thanks everybody
: : : :
: : :
: : : Which pl do you feels is better C++, Java or SQL in Visual Basic?
: :
: I think C++ is the best for begginers i would know because i am 1 and i think its the best for you all to learn
:
Thanks you are one only two responses and like you I'm a beginner also.

Re: Maximum easyment

Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:23:51 -0700

Re: Maximum easyment

Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:27:40 -0700

: Oh what a horrible language Pascal is!
:
: Whatever language you develope, you'll have the planets support if it is 100% object oriented.
:
: Java is the closest I've seen to 100% object orientation. It's even compatible with other languages. The problem is that it lacks some of the powerful developmemt tools such as information hidding, pointers, multiple inheritance, templates are missing (I think?!), etc., and the apps are very slow compared to other pl's. The benifit is that it is platform independent.
:
: C++ is almost as close to Java with respect to object orientation, but has the most advanced features such as pointers, multiple inheritance and fascilitates information hidding. It's the fastest and most versitile development language, but has some problems: it doesn't support multithreading, functions are allowed to 'float' in the air without belonging to a class (which contracts object orientation), the apps are platform dependent, etc...
:
: VB is based upon the prehistoric caveman style pl BASIC which is good for nothing except make training institutes and Bill Gates wealthier. I won't even start to mention the draw backs. There's only so much space on the net.
:
: Pascal and Delphi are object based and not object oriented. It's complicated to maintain and after a day of research into new methods one finds that something just cannot be done. You can't even intergrate an app in these pl's with another, which make Delphi and Pascal useless except for small and unsophisticated apps, (and for preschool learning).
:
:
:
:
: The moral: if it is possible to create a pl that eliminates all of the above (and some more) problems, then you'll become a multi-billionare overnight. Keep going, we need an improvement... As for now all we got is Java and C++.
:
Thanks for the tip

Re: Maximum easyment

Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:12:09 -0700

Thank for some information. Do you know where I find some information on internet? I was searching for OS related information last months. I know only one site where pl is mentioned: http://tunes.org/Review/Languages.html. I didnt read this page yet but after reading os page I am not very optimistic...

Comparison of pl's

Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:45:22 -0700

: Thank for some information. Do you know where I find some information on internet? I was searching for OS related information last months. I know only one site where pl is mentioned: http://tunes.org/Review/Languages.html. I didnt read this page yet but after reading os page I am not very optimistic...
:

Unfortunatly I don't know where on the net a neat comparison of all the different programming languages is. I think it's best if you compile a list of every language that you can find, on this site and others, and then search these languages one by one using a search engine. I tutor 1st year computer science at a university (C++, Delphi, and Pascal) and program in Java. Most of my friends are VB programmers. So I can compare all of these languages but there are many more; Perl, Ruby, Python, etc... that I wish I could compare.

Every language has its strong points and its drawbacks (just like the spoken languages). It would be quite interesting to know what the advantages and disadvantages of every single pl is. I listed just a few of the adv. and disadv. of some of the languages. Sometimes for a strong point to exist a disadv. must also exist, such as trading off speed and size. Java is small but slow, C++ is larger but much much faster. Delphi, Pascal and VB just irretate me. I don't see a valid use for these languages at all!!! At my job we teach the students either Delphi or Pascal as an introductory course. In my opinion we're all wasting our time. C++ and Java are both easier to understand because of the object oriented concept.

Take object orientation seriously because that's what all future languages are going to be based upon.

If it was possible to create a pl as powerfull as C++, with 100% object orientation as in Java, that language would rule all programmers. Try to find out more about Ruby, Perl and Python. Let me know what thier adv. and disadv. are. I would really like to know more languages but definatly never want to waste my time agian studying crap like Pascal, Delphi and VB. See if you can find out if there are more languages, I can't think of any more... COBAL! but that sucks (I've only seen it but it's too much typing like in Pascal)... ... ...

Are ActiveX and OpenGL considered pl's? I know that HTML and JavaScript is not.

Re: Comparison of pl's

Tue, 16 Jul 2002 04:23:22 -0700

I read tunes pl page and I am not content. There is many pl there but mostly they are curious projects. Get some concrete information about syntax and structure is very hard and in many times it daunt me. I want something what there isnt easy to find.
I will probably start in creation from basement. I will work on my OS and meanwhile I will develope pl. It will be difficult to do two projects at the same time but by this way I will see what I require from pl.
But before I start I need fo find some information about types pl like logical pl,OOP pl,functional pl,etc.
There is next website which I found: http://www.techfest.com/software/index.htm

Re: Comparison of pl's

Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:08:19 -0700

We just spend four years completing the first release of:

http://www.ttinet.com/sheerpower

It is a hybrid language that is "BASIC LIKE" in that you can start programming quickly without having to learn the entire language -- and avoids OS dependancies while writing professional code. We consiously pushed for LOW MAINTENANCE COSTS and FAST PROGRAMMING RAMP UP TIMES. But, looking back, we have a long way to go to REALLY, REALLY makes things QUICK to write, yet EASY to MAINTAIN. It is a hard task!

One of the disadvantages of C++ and other OO languages is that the programming ramp-up time is somewhat high -- and long term maintenance costs can be very high. Since over 80% of all programming is "maintenance programming", whatever new language(s) are developed need to address EASE OF MAINTENANCE.

Also, good to address in a new pl would be reduce the ENDLESS HOURS wasted as engineers try to "convince" Windows or some other OS how to do something simple (like adding colors to a pull-down menu or sending email from the application)).

Re: Maximum easyment

Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:40:14 -0700

Anyone know what the newest kid on the block (C#) is like compared to C++?

What is C#?

Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:38:54 -0700

: Anyone know what the newest kid on the block (C#) is like compared to C++?
:

Interesting question. Launch this question on the C/C++ forum, I would like to know the difference myself.

Try some easy pl's..

Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:27:43 -0700

Re: Comparison of pl's

Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:38:12 -0700

Are you planning to offer others database access ?

Re: Try some easy pl's..

Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:48:54 -0700

Euphoria is an interesting pl but it have some problems, it is to much "High Level", useless for many programming tasks.

I redesigned the basic pl, I've changed many of it's aspects.

Re: Try some easy pl's..

Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:06:04 -0700

: I redesigned the basic pl, I've changed many of it's aspects.

What are some of the changes that you have made?

Re: Try some easy pl's..

Wed, 11 Sep 2002 05:59:44 -0700

: : I redesigned the basic pl, I've changed many of it's aspects.
:
: What are some of the changes that you have made?
:

http://www.programmersheaven.com/groups/compilerdev
You can find there some informations, but they are far to be compilted
I can tell you that you will have signed and unsigned integer (1,2,4,8 bits), 3 types of strings (Pascal (String8, max len=255), Basic (String16, max len=65535), Long String (String32, max len = 2^32-1)), the classes is still a problem for me so I will have to learn more on the subject before implementing it. YOu can't have code outside procedures (like all basic had), now you must use a Sub Main. A more structure error handling is done (try ... except).
Many options in the compiler specifing the compilation type, output type, target OS, CPU. Most of them can be changed at compile time.

Re: Try some easy pl's..

Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:02:11 -0700

: : : I redesigned the basic pl, I've changed many of it's aspects.
: :
: : What are some of the changes that you have made?
: :
A more structure error handling is done (try ... except).

The ANSI BASIC standard has some syntax for exception handling:

when exception in
...code to be protected
use
...action to take
end when

I have put a copy of a DRAFT of the standard (about 99% of this draft made it to the final version) into:

www.ttinet.com/dan/ansi.txt

We then implemented this in SheerPower 4GL and it seemed to work pretty well: www.sp4gl.com

Re: Try some easy pl's..

Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:16:39 -0700

WOW!!!
I don't know this standart. It seams to be much more advanced than all MS basic implementations, including VB. It is probably valid for PowerBasic or TrueBasic

Re: Maximum easyment

Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:48:38 -0700